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Just a test paludarium..

Discussion in 'Riparium & Paludarium General Discussion' started by MarcelM, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. MarcelM

    MarcelM Custom Text
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    Keith,
    I wonder too, nice stone.. :) I believe mine is Belgium Ardennes rubble stone, but then in its raw form, brought to my place in the ice ages.. The ardenne rock for sale in the regular trade as in garden centres and pavement suppliers then the stones are tumbled in a big barrel (no idea how that process realy is called in english) to make it smoother. Then the color changes somewhat to gray and the marble effect goes a bit away. But raw cut is more black and more distinct marbled. That stone is very commen in my area because i live not far from the Belgium Ardennes. It's often used in aquascapes and fish tanks most commonly in cichlids tanks, like this picture, but this is also tumbled garden centre stone with some hand cut pieces among them. if you handcut it it can be razor sharp edged.
    18113663218_e943505ff4_c.

    the stone in the above scapefu scape does look simmular, but is clearly a bit different in texture. more dimpled. :)
     
  2. Jason King

    Jason King Founder
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    The rock in the scapefu image could be Mini Landscape / Seiryu Rock the same as in my scape, some of the pieces I have do have that white line on and some not.

    If you look closely you might just see the lines

    2015-08-18 16.47.46.

    After a while the green on the rocks have covered most of them.
     
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  3. Keith

    Keith Administrator
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    Soak a rock in a bucket of water and check the Ph and the Hardness to see if it alters reason for saying this is why it used in Cichlid tanks.

    Keith:cathug::cathug:
     
  4. MarcelM

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    The Ardenne Rock is indeed a calcite mineral, but also very stable in water.. :) That question is a very common question on Dutch, Belgium and German forums because the stone is found in parts of these countries all over the place and thus very often found and wanted to be used. Never the less i tested it.. I got fairly soft water 4GH but it stays stable also the Ph 7.3 doesnt alter. The Akadama lowers the KH from KH6 to KH2 for a few weeks and this also stays stable with this rock.. :) I was more concerned with the brown clay which is also in it, i also tested it in muriatic acid, it disolved the surface clay and reacts heavily.. but still till now the water stays stable. At least for the weeks it is in now..
     
  5. Keith

    Keith Administrator
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    Rocks can be a big problem if its unknown and is not checked.

    Its the same with collected DW as you have no information of its origin.

    Keith:cathug::cathug:
     
  6. MarcelM

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    Especialy for wood this is a pitty sometimes..Finding a nice piece and knowing nothing about it. There is one idea i haven't tried yet. Soaking wood in Sodium-silicate and bake it in an oven.. If tried it unbaked, treating wood with sodium-silicate gives it a nice appearance sometimes, but when dried it's not stable enough in wet or moist invironments,slowly disolves and turns white.. Baking the treated wood, the sodium-silicate would turn into a waterproof glass like film. I need a pizza oven in the yard.. :(
     
  7. Keith

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    Would this remove any spray/soil chemicals used during its life time?

    Keith:cathug::cathug:
     
  8. MarcelM

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    I don't realy get it what you're refering to.. Can you aleborate on that with some better detail.. Probably my english skills.. :)

    But Sodium Silicate is used in building constructions and f.e. mixed into concrete.. When concrete cures it gets hot and the chemical process will bond it with the sodium silicate and create very dense and water proof concrete walls and floors.. They build swimming pools like that or use it for underground cellar walls.

    I tried it on different materials and just let it dry.. But then it still disolves slowly again when moist or submersed. Only baking it at a relative high tempreature would bind the Sodium silicate to a waterproof film.. In dutch this stuff is also called waterglass, they used it in the 50's-60's and 70's to presserve eggs to dip them in the waterglass, so you can keep eggs many years on the shelff without them rotting. So it's not poissones.

    It gives when dried a nice natural patina to wood, even when its applied a bit to much and dripping off it looks when dry like a natural amber colored resin dripping out of the bark of the wood. like you find often on cherry trees.
    but i would like to see when it's baked and hard. I don't know yet.. I also used Epoxy, but this is actualy way to shiny and gives an unnatural look.
     
    #28 MarcelM, Aug 28, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  9. Keith

    Keith Administrator
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    Would this remove any spray/soil chemicals used during its life time?

    Marcel what I was referring to with all that treatment would it remove the sprayed insecticide oils in the timber?

    Keith:cathug::cathug:
     
  10. MarcelM

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    Keith, i guess sometimes you have to test and take your chances with wood not found in nature but in gardens or near urban locations. With wood found in gardens or unknown origine i'm always somewhat paranoia and i never would use it with any life stock.. What's found in the forest is unlikely to be treated with chemicals. Gardens or farm fields you'll never know of course. Wood where even the spieces is unkwon and not knowing what it will release in water i would never use submersed.

    Like that piece of hydrangea from above is out of somebody's garden, i know the person i came from and he's like me never uses chemicals. But still even after drying the wood for years and cooking it for hours. it just kept on moulding within days in a little test terrarium. That was also the first piece i tried Sodium Silicate on and was surprised how beatifull it came to look after that. I tested it in the terrarium again and the surface film turned white after a few weeks, the SC was slowly disolving in the moist air and also the mould came back.. That hydrangea wood moulds like cray. I contacted a chemist for advise on that SC stuff and he said the only way is baking it in an oven at a few hundred degrees than the sodium silicate would form a glass hard impenetrable film. Unfortunately no oven availlable at the time, so i just cooked it again to get the SC off left it to dry and treated it with a non toxic epoxy resin formula E45T. :) And after that it was in a little terrarium setup for about 2 years it never moulded again and plants are growing on it. even glewing some coconut fibre to it to attach moss worked great. I still would be reluctant to use some like that submersed with live stock. Even a tiny crack in the surface film and water goes in, than you'll never know what comes out again on the long term. :)
     
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  11. moss-maniac

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    ahhh waterglass - yes, I remember, my grandmother used that for the eggs when I was about 5 years old...:)
    Thank you for the good tipps Marcel

    Kind regards
    Ev
     
  12. MarcelM

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    Hi Evelyn no thanks,but i'm not sure if it works with heating it. A chemist told me and i'm just sharing my thoughts. What might work. If you ever try please let us know.. :)
     
  13. Keith

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    Over the years being on Aquariums its always safe to say about unknown wood finds being used in Aquariums, "If in doubt toss it out".

    Keith:cathug::cathug:
     
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  14. moss-maniac

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    As I know, even boiling in pure water is bad for roots, isn't it? They rot faster it is said.
    I also tried the microwave oven - if you use it longer it is not good for the wood, I had the feeling.
    But algaes are killed well with it very fast... :cool:
     
  15. MarcelM

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    Boiling the wood, many poeple do and still report positive long time experiences with it. I did in the past as a kid, boiling in sald water because that was what the book said, and still used the wood for several years in the aquarium. i got the same experiences with unboiled wood, never had problems whit any. Boiling changes the woods cellular structure and will lose some biological propperties and goes faster in decomposition when used submersed because of the damaged cells. But that "faster" is a somewhat indefinite claim. I think it also depends on the piece of wood itself, what kind of wood and the overall condition it is in. The real overall condition is hard to say when we look at it and feel it, with our nacked eyes and hands and what the final outcome will be if we boil it or not. It's a gamble and nothing realy conclusive. Many people do to take out the tannines and this is one of those biological propperties it will lose more or less, depending on the setup or volume of water it is in the tannins can be as beneficial as distructive.

    i did read many stories about mopani wood releasing so many tannins in the watter that the water colored orange and changes the acidity.. And i got 7 pieces of mopani wood in 42 liters of water now since april this year. Didn't boil it, because it is rock hard and looked clean, just washed it off with clean water. Till now i didn't experience any negative effect, no real heavy coloring nor changes in acidity and i do a 25% WC a week, the water comes out tiny bit yellowish.

    If you ask me :) i say don't boil it if you use it submersed. If you don't have the patience to test your aquarium for 6 to 8 weeks before putting life stock in. And do not have the means to dicede from there if you keep it planted whit no fish. You should test the wood for a few weeks and leave it in a sumilar volume of water as the aquarium you plan to put it in. and decide from there if it is safe to use.

    And you also could take in consideration what setup you're planning.. High tech tanks maybe last 2 or 3 years, low tech tanks can do may more, this also can have a major different effeect on the wood you are using.. :)
     
  16. Keith

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    After working and teaching wood all my working life, I would never recommend boiling all it does is starts to break down a lot faster.
    The outer harder surfaces once they break down the soft center is exposed and once that starts it rots away very fast.

    Keith:cathug::cathug:
     
  17. MarcelM

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    Keith,

    Yes on the long term i definitly have to agree, as i said i know from experienced wood workers as well that boiling damages the cellular structure of wood and there for decomposes faster. I just meant to say, its somewhat inconclusive what this "Faster" is, in terms of time. And that this likely is determined by the quality of the wood you like to boil. Is it 1 month, a year, 2 years, i havent experienced it yet. Can say nothing about then other, in the past i did and still kept the wood for years without issues.

    but i also see no real benefit nor experienced any positive effects in boiling wood.. So why do it? :)
     
  18. moss-maniac

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    Agree, I also made the experience, that some wood became stinky very fast :censored: - with and without boiling , others did not so...
     
  19. Keith

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    We have one wood I think you could bake it and it would not break down and others that would break down with out boiling it.

    Keith:cathug::cathug:
     
  20. moss-maniac

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    Exactly Keith!:)
     
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